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September 7, 2013
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Witch Hunt by beiibis Witch Hunt by beiibis
Just a thing from my tumblr I wanted to share.

And just to make things clear - yes, I'm aware that they are both men and women saying those words to other women. Not only men can be opressive, I know that. And I know that this "burning bras" thing never actually happened, but this is what many many people associate feminism with and this is what I am talking about here.

Oh, and I'm superglad if you never heard those words and never been hurt this way, but only because you were lucky and grew up in a friendly society doesn't mean it's always like that. Here, in Poland, for example, we have a huge problem with that. And not only with unkind words and being rude - but with serious violence. Here, have some statistics about Poland:

38% of public prosecutors and 45% of policemen thinks that woman can not stop unwanted sexual contact if she once agreed, and if she did, she can not report it as a crime.
11% of all polish people thinks that this is not rape if the men was victim's husband.
29% of public prosecutors and 39% of policemen thinks that this is not rape if victim was forced to have sexual contact other way then by physical violence.
18% of public prosecutorsans 32% of policemen thinks that this is not rape if  victim was forced to have sexual contacy by physical violence.
That means that for about 20% of public prosecutors and 40% of policemen there is no such thing as rape crime because there's no such kind of behavior they would treat as rape.

Source (polish only): www.feminoteka.pl/downloads/do…

Sorry, I had to delete earlier statistics about rape on unconscious women because I couldn't find the source of those statistics and I don't want to mislead anyone.
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Daily Deviation

Given 2014-02-23
Witch Hunt by beiibis ( Suggested by DanielGrzeszkiewicz and Featured by alexandrasalas )
:icontalkativetiad:
TalkativeTiaD Featured By Owner Jul 6, 2014  Hobbyist Artist
I feel like the rules for women in life are that if you're fat you're ugly, but if you're skinny you're a slut...that's why I actually feel like I'm too skinny, I don't want people to think that I starve myself or I'm trying to show off...I wish there were no insecurities in life and people could just live the way they are without being judged.
Reply
:iconishawee:
ISHAWEE Featured By Owner Jun 11, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
Nie wiem, jak to robisz, ale świetnie ilustrujesz wszelkie moje bulwersje na temat współczesnego świata. Oby tak dalej, trzymaj się :3
Reply
:iconpeter-the-knotter:
Peter-The-Knotter Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2014  Student Artisan Crafter
Loving your work!...er... no explanations should be necessary to anyone vaguely civilised and aware/insightful.... btw: Bras were, in fact, burnt! :) Keep doing what you do!
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:iconniekitty:
niekitty Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2014
yyyup.
Reply
:iconsuperflamekitty:
SuperFlameKitty Featured By Owner Apr 14, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
This so called "war" is ridiculous
People ask for respect
Do they get it?
Most of the time, no
It shows that at least 40% of the human population are idiots and close-minded
Reply
:iconfiskefyren:
fiskefyren Featured By Owner Apr 9, 2014
I don't mind girls dressing up as whores and sluts, I'm totally okay with that! But if they bitch about be looking at their tits almost dropping out and get angry at me, then I'll probably call them whores and sluts... they asked for it!
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:iconkerlyenai:
Kerlyenai Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2014
Well said and drawn. I wish this wasn't true though...
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:iconjaberjaws:
jaberJaws Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2014
this speaks so much truth
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:iconmadmonalisa:
MadMonaLisa Featured By Owner Mar 8, 2014  Student Traditional Artist
This make me sad...
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:iconnothing111111:
nothing111111 Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
rozumiem że są ludzie i taborety ale to już lekka przesada...
ale zdaję sobie sprawę że tak bywa i jestem wdzięczny ze pokazała to pani ludziom. I taboretom.
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:iconhobovill99:
hobovill99 Featured By Owner Mar 1, 2014
I totally get this. When I'm being feminine I'm trying to hard to get guys, but when I'm being masculine I'm STILL trying to hard to get guys. It would be great if people just chose one and stuck to it. Btw Complete supporter of both your art and feminism!
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:iconiastartov:
IAstartov Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2014
Hate when things like this happen, and they happen a lot, sadly. I even saw how parents treat their children in similar way. And I know how horrible oppression can be.
About wrong definition of feminism: the idea, real intention of the originator, in any cases isn’t shared by everyone equally. That leads to misunderstandings and myths around the idea, thus creating a different distorted view. And that view can be distorted again by others, and so on. It’s like informational genes, it changes and mutates. And everyone thinks that he or she knows the truth, which is not from the view of origin. More than that, there are a lot of people thinking that their “truth” is the only one and real one. So they do whatever they want, even if that hurts others. But they don’t bother with it, because in their opinion they have the right, they are better, they are truly normal humans; instead those, who doesn’t share their vision are nothing. Well, it’s just my opinion and my impression about some events of my life. I can be wrong at all.

Congrats with DD!
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:iconsolx93:
Solx93 Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014
I honestly haven't cared much about the feminism disscusions raging around lately, but the fact that even I, a man, know more of what feminism is about that most of those people, kinda scare me...
Not saying I know 100% about it, but I know the basics at least...

As for the deviation, good job on this one. I can see similarities with this and situations I have encountered lately, both at home, with friends, at school, etc... :iconfavplz: from me
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:iconxxchantellexx:
XxchantellexX Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
This is really spot on. Not only do men do this to women, but women do this to other women. In fact women are the worst offenders for telling other women that they are wrong for being a home maker. Women nor en can escape this kind of double standard crap. Of course some of the double standards are different for men. They have to be the one to go out and have the job, they can't be raped and so on.
Reply
:iconvan-dunkelschreiber:
Van-Dunkelschreiber Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
see that's what it should be about, but so many girls at school take feminism as an excuse to treat me like I some kind of problem for being born with a Y chromasone. 
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:iconk-milla:
K-milla Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014  Student General Artist
Thank you so much for this ! I'm so tired of all that feminism hate when people don't even know what feminism actually is...
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:iconkanepaws:
KanePaws Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014
I love how this appears as a Daily Deviation alongside a painted Geisha model; a Disney princess fanart; and a model in platform heels, a corset and garter stockings.
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:iconexillior:
Exillior Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
If you're speaking with irony, you seem to have missed some of the boxes in this strip.
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:iconkanepaws:
KanePaws Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2014
I was trying to point out the juxtaposition between the comic's message of "girls should be able to be whatever they want" and the message inherent in so many of the other deviations -- deviations which show, time and time again, the same sort of girl: objectified, passive, decorative, that sort of thing. A girl who's looked at from the perspective of a man, who is not nearly so often a person with thoughts as simply a pretty piece of "art." The line of Disney princesses that appeared on the same day simply sealed the deal for me.

I had thought it was an amusing contrast that people might appreciate; that the point is lost on you is not my onus.
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:iconexillior:
Exillior Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
The point is not lost on me. But the fact that you bring it up on a deviation that highlights that women should be free to do whatever they want, even if that includes following a "stereotype" - note that there is a Barbie type in there as well; and there is the girl who has dressed up like a model (i.e. "pretty piece of art", "objectified") - you've completely missed the point of this deviation.
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:iconkanepaws:
KanePaws Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2014
Art depicting women is not necessarily women choosing to be whatever they want. To take one example, a Disney princess is not a real women choosing to follow a stereotype, she is a stereotype, created by a man; she is one of many stereotypes constraining women, telling them to look and act a certain way.

There's a difference here that's not coming through. You're acting as though anything that depicts a woman is in perfect rectitude and represents freedom of expression for the woman depicted -- well I'm saying that it's not always that way. One has to be conscious of the images and expectations foisted upon women, as well. One has to consider what the volume and frequency of certain representations mean when taken together.

It's not that I've missed the point of the comic -- it's pretty blatantly highlighted, after all -- it's that you fail to differentiate between a woman's right to personal expression, on one hand, and anyone's representation of a woman, on the other.
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:iconexillior:
Exillior Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
 I didn't fail to realise that Disney princesses were created as a stereotype.

But continuing to view the world in stereotypes is what keeps the system going - and then women end up trying to avoid those stereotypes; and in so doing get other stereotypes. Much like Anti-Sues.

The women in this cartoon are not real women either. Does that change anything?
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:iconkanepaws:
KanePaws Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2014
All I have been saying from the beginning is that persistent selection and spotlighting of one kind of idealized, sexualized female impinges on the lives of women and therefore (ironically) runs contrary to the comic's stated position.

You're getting more distracted as this (already far too long) train of replies grows ever longer and the crux of the argument is just getting buried. At this point all I can do is let you know that I won't be wasting any more time on these laborious responses, and that if you need clarification you can just read my previous replies -- everything I've wanted to say is there and already clearly put.
Reply
:iconexillior:
Exillior Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
... There are this many replies because you keep repeating yourself when I told you I got your point.

I'm not the one needing clarification. :|
Reply
(1 Reply)
:iconhiland-rose:
Hiland-Rose Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014  Professional Artisan Crafter
I am lucky enough to live in the US where the law doesn't always agree with popular opinion when it comes to rape... but the opinions you expressed in your stats are still in effect regardless of prosecution.... Women are not men, but our differences do not make us weaker or less than men... that's all feminism is about... no more, no less.  Thank you very much for putting all of those remarks out there, here, around me personally I hear it most from women... not men.  As women we need to respect our own femininity in how we dress, and act too... it's a two way street.  Modesty of dress is a part of it but also how we carry ourselves and allow other's to speak about us... men and women both. 
Reply
:iconvan-dunkelschreiber:
Van-Dunkelschreiber Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
yeah well unfortunately there are # of women out the giving feminism a bad name using the movement to enact their philosophy that men are all scum.
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:iconhiland-rose:
Hiland-Rose Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2014  Professional Artisan Crafter

I don't think that is what this piece is about though...some women, just like some men can be sexist pigs... don't put that on all of us, any more than we should be putting that on you guys... :)  We're two sides of the same coin, called humanity.  Both equal in value and necessary if in different capacities.

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:iconvan-dunkelschreiber:
Van-Dunkelschreiber Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
No I wasn't talking about this piece, the artist here has a correct understanding of what feminism is supposed to be about
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:iconhiland-rose:
Hiland-Rose Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2014  Professional Artisan Crafter
:) (Smile) 
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:iconlordnidhogg:
LordNidhogg Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014
Those statistics are terrible; it's really sad that so many of these attitudes still exist.  Well, I will try my best to change things how I can...
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:iconredstrike893:
redstrike893 Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014
Megadeth t-shirt.  Nice!
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:iconuruczek:
Uruczek Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014
yup, zgadzam się, najgorsze jest to że dużo ludzi nie ma pojęcia na czym feminizm polega, to co napisałaś, myślą że to wariatki palące staniki, ech 
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:icontellim-komachi:
Tellim-Komachi Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014  Student Digital Artist
Znam ten komiks od dawna i bardzo się cieszę, że został wyróżniony jako DD :) Podoba mi się to, co przekazujesz swoimi pracami, oby tak dalej!
No i zdecydowanie zazdroszczę ci takiego wsparcia ze strony Daniela.
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:iconbeiibis:
beiibis Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
To fakt, Daniel jest dla mnie niesamowitym wsparciem :)
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:icong66d66:
G66D66 Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014  Student General Artist
OMG this says everything I can never seem to explain to people who think I'm some kind of woman supremacist, thank you for making this!! XD
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:iconfiskefyren:
fiskefyren Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2014
uhm... feminism is a completely different thing today than it was back in the days where woman were consider 2nd class (probably all thanks to religion for suppressing them through out time).

Anyway, I think what you're talking about here is humanism and not feminism...
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:iconlizziecat1279:
lizziecat1279 Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014  Student General Artist
It still goes by the name of feminism, and regardless of what you call it the intent is still the same ^^
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:iconfiskefyren:
fiskefyren Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2014
Not in the developing countries, my dear. The feminist issue is pretty much done and over. But for those Muslim ruled countries... feminism should be a thing there, seeing how women are being suppressed, but I would still say humanism is better than feminism, not to mention it isn't as tainted as feminism has become... and no offence but the feminist that I've seen? They fucking disgust me.
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:iconlizziecat1279:
lizziecat1279 Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2014  Student General Artist
Actually, a lot of Muslim ruled countries are more progressive than America in terms of feminism, as a ton of them have had females in positions of power (such as being president).

You've seen feminazis, who are disgusting. But they aren't feminists, they're misandristic people who want to replace the patriarchy with a matriarchy and that's not something that would actually help anything.
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:iconfiskefyren:
fiskefyren Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2014
Not sure I understood what you just said... you say more women in Muslim ruled countries have higher status than American women? I guess that is understandable... a lot of women in America are just gold digging and don't really want to do anything else than just shop on the man's bank account... all they need after all is a pair of tits and an ass and they will pretty much get a man which will support their asses... woman only have themselves to blame in that regard... and I'm fairly sure Muslim women doesn't have this option because they are "owned" by their men.

Well, they're currently the front of feminism... so again, just become a Humanist and drop the feminism crap, I don't start a machonism movement just because women gets more rights in some regard than men do, like who takes the child when they break up... no, I'm a Humanist and I stand for everyones right to have their children. I believe we should be 100% equal on pretty much all matters, men and women.

But yes, all those... "feminazis" want is to have men as 2nd citizens. 
Reply
:iconlizziecat1279:
lizziecat1279 Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2014  Student General Artist
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_p… I know it's a wikipedia article, but it has links to better sources than I would find easily.

And no, that's one of the most misogynistic statements I've ever heard. Just because you have a pretty face and a nice body doesn't mean you're a whore or a gold digger or are going to be supported by a decent man. And since when is it anybody's fault what they look like when most of the time it's just straight up biology? Sure, there's some people who diet and are thin and some people who eat a lot of fatty foods and are fat, but if dieting=skinny/"pretty" and eating shitty food (greasy, fattening, etc) meant you were fat...then why am I not more than 120lbs? I eat plenty of that kind of fattening food and yet biology seems to have it in for me that I'm going to be a twig for my entire life.

Again citing wikipedia, but whatever it works en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in… In the very second paragraph it says "Islam does not mandate Muslim women to be housewives; but needs her husband’s permission to leave house and take up employment. In majority Muslim countries women exercise varying degrees of their religious rights with regards to marriage, divorce, legal status, dress code, and education based on different interpretations." 
Skimming that article the only instance I can see of Islamic men "owning" a woman is when that woman is a slave, in which case all sorts of things can be expected of her (such as forced concubinage and being sold to whoever regardless of what that slave woman wants). Otherwise the only thing close to ownership of a woman by a man is that a wife should be obedient to her husband, which isn't unique to Islam at all. Christianity has that too, and that's also the generalistic sexist belief of society, that a wife should serve her husband and not do anything of her own volition.
Though according to Islamic law, evidently an Islamic wife can demand payment for any chores she does around the house as she is not obligated to do so.

Feminism is just a word. If you want to call it Humanism, go for it, but just know that you and most legitimate feminists are on the same damn side.

The reason why machonism isn't needed (or rather, masculinism) is because rights are like a race on a round track. Here's a picture (I know it's a graph but it's the best one for the analogy) www.computomarx.com/Fig4.gif if you can't picture the starting line. Now, you'll see that the starting line doesn't go flat across. People aren't even, and it seems like the bottom runner is getting a head start from the innermost runner. But then if you continue looking on the graph, you'll see that that outside track is longer than the inside track. So if everyone started off even, the innermost runner would have an unfair advantage.

The privileged groups of people (of which I am a part of, save for the fact that I'm a woman) tend to only see the starting line. They don't see the actual distance of the track, the longer run that the outer runners are going to have to do around the outside of the track. Privileged people are those innermost runners that it appears like all the other groups are going to outrun them when in reality, only just now that the outer groups have a start line that's ahead of the inner runners can they even compete fairly with those innermost runners.
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:iconfiskefyren:
fiskefyren Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2014
Thanks for revealing yourself, you're just the kind of person that's the problem with the whole concept of feminism. 
Sorry I didn't bother reading your wall of text but you lost me when you called me misogynist just because I stated facts.

You've a good day now.
-with love from an Agnostic
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:iconmagdalenacaracol:
magdalenacaracol Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2014
Ah, she called you misogynist too? Nice, ain't she? You're not alone. I may be pro-life and may have made suggestions that feminism should take a turn toward fostering more women at home with more children (which can be misconstrued easily, I know, but I didn't mean it to say working women are bad or that a woman can't be responsible for herself... the one thing I'll criticize myself on was that I was a little vague and didn't use enough citations and clarifications at first) but this woman ranted at me and called me all kinds of nasty things. I'm Roman Catholic and I get accused by people who have prejudices against my church that I'm narrow-minded and I try not to let it get me down, but it's nice to meet an agnostic who has thoughts like yours that perhaps the "feminist" movement is not all it's cracked up to be, that perhaps there's more to female empowerment than promiscuity and shitting all over men, the way a lot of them go on about it :) There's a bad stigma within my own religious community that people not associated with religion will automatically back the modern feminist movement, people arguing the way you do helps that stigma lessen, thank you.
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(1 Reply)
:iconthe-3dg:
the-3DG Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I love this. This also reminds me of something I saw on Tumblr showing how when guys preach feminism, they're the heroes, but when girls start preaching it or something, everyone (sometimes often even other women) just say something like "Hush now, that's just the way life is. It's fine." which makes me more disappointed with what humanity is today.
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:iconkitsune-mana:
kitsune-mana Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2014
preach it

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:iconsirferrick:
SirFerrick Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
This is an important message, and it should be spread and known and all that. However, I do kinda wonder why its a DD... I feel like DD's should be chosen for artistic merit as opposed to message, and you have tons of stuff that would well be worth being a DD... I dunno.

But congrats nevertheless.
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:iconlordhiraka:
LordHiraka Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2014
I can respect that
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:iconhawkbri:
Hawkbri Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2014
Sadly, the hottest debaters FOR 'feminism' go too far and make the movement a 'feminazi' movement, provoking female-domination over men INSTEAD of equality. Of course... Chivalry is dead in most people, corrupted by greed and easy-to-have desire instead of working hard for it. It's also killed off a good portion of the job market instead of making more jobs. There's always a Private-Business side to it all...
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:iconnorcinu:
Norcinu Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
After groaning about the latest popular "Why I need Feminism" poem (not to insult the author, I just personally did not like it) I almost groaned again after seeing this in the DD section. But then I read it. And I can really feel for it. Especially how some of those voices aren't even from other people but from yourself. Anyway, the top two right panels seem a bit repetitive and reckon maybe having comments like "Oh, her boobs/looks are her only asset" or "Look how self absorbed she is" might of been good.

Regardless, this is a good piece. Fantastic work and congratulations on the DD you deserve it! :+fav:
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:iconsweetlilangelica:
SweetlilAngelica Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
people are perfect just the way you are. it's just that you need to look inside you for purity. amazing art. i love it. worth the daily deviation :)
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